Defensible Space: Practical Steps to Wild Fire Resilience

In this episode of The Evergreen Thumb, Mike Karvia, a retired Assistant Chief of Pacific County Fire District No. 1 shares insights into wildfire prevention strategies. The discussion begins with an explanation of what defensible space is and what the zones specifically entail. Mike emphasizes the need for effective defensible space practices, including thoughtful landscaping choices, property layout considerations, types of plants that are more fire-safe, and consistent maintenance efforts. He also tackles prevalent misconceptions surrounding defensible space, ensuring listeners have accurate information to safeguard their homes. Real-life examples highlight the efficacy of well-maintained defensible space in protecting properties during wildfires, underscoring the critical role it plays in fire safety. The episode concludes with a list of resources available to homeowners, ranging from government agencies and local fire departments to publications offering guidance on creating and sustaining defensible space. 

Mike retired after 30 years of service. He volunteered for 10 years, has 20 years of career service, and worked for 30 years as an EMT. His main position was being in charge of fire-related training for volunteers and career personnel. He instructed classes at other fire departments, The Firefighter Academy, and Clatsop Community College for the Fire Science Program. As a part of that role, he conducted firefighter testing for the state of Washington. He started as a Master Gardener in 2012 and will receive his 10-year pin this year. He says the best part of being a Master Gardener is that you are a forever learner.

• 12 Steps to Defend Your Home from Wildfire WA DNR
• How to Protect Your Home from Wildfires WSU
• Defensible Space – Prepare Your Home | WA – DNR
• Wildfires | Ready.gov
• Healthy Landscapes FEMA

[00:00:00] Erin Landon: Welcome to The Evergreen Thumb Episode 22. My guest today is Mike Karvia, and he’s here to talk to us about wildfire preparedness and creating defensible space. Mike is a retired assistant chief with the Pacific County Fire District No. 1 after 30 years of service. He spent 10 years as a volunteer, 20 years in career service, and 30 years as an EMT.

His main position was overseeing fire-related training for volunteers and career personnel, instructing classes to other fire departments, Firefighting Academy, instructing at Clatsop Community College for the Fire Science Program, and conducting Firefighter testing for the state of Washington. He started as a Master Gardener in Grays Harbor/Pacific Counties and will receive his 10-year pin this year.

Mike, thanks for joining me today. Welcome to the show.

Mike Karvia: Well, thank you for the invite. I appreciate it.

Erin Landon: So why don’t you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and your gardening experience and your firefighting experience?

[00:01:04] Mike Karvia: Sure. Well, we can start off with my firefighting experience. I’ve got 30 years of fire service under my belt; and 10 years as a volunteer and a 20-year career with the same department, Pacific County Fire District No.1 on the Long Beach Peninsula.

When I first started 30 years ago, we were running for 500 calls. At the end of my tenure, we were up to 3000. So, it’s quite a, quite an increase. It was great to see that go through this growing spurt. So, I’ve, uh, been a training officer for most of my career and teaching at the community college and the Fire Science, the high school Fire Science Program, other departments, and then testing for the state of Washington for testing firefighters.

So all of that was a good chapter in my life. It’s over with, it’s time to move on, and I am a master gardener with the class of 2014. This year I get my 10-year pin, so I’m pretty excited about that. It’s been one of the greatest moves I’ve made. And here’s where you have vetted information and it’s really made me a better gardener, a better person.

I love helping instruct some of the Master Gardener cooking classes that we’re undergoing right now. What a great adventure, just having a good time. So, thank you.

An Introduction to Defensible Spaces

[00:02:31] Erin Landon: All right. So, can you tell us a little bit about what defensible space is and why it’s important for homeowners, especially in wildfire-prone areas?

[00:02:42] Mike Karvia: Yeah, it’s not only for wildfire-prone areas, there really is a concept to adopt in all areas, I think is my thought on it. So the defensible space, it’s simply a buffer. All this is to reduce the impact and increase your chance of surviving, say, a wildland fire and not contributing to the fire spread.

So mostly it’s done through vegetation management, um, in a series of zones that you can create. But the key part about these zones, is they are specific to your location, specific to your house, specific to your situation. If you and I have a house side by side, built by the same contractor, we have the same footprint then there’s something different about it. That’s going to be customizable to me. What works for me, isn’t going to work for you. So we want to reduce this fire.

3 Basic Ways a Fire Can Start

If you think about the basics, a structure fire, for lack of better words, can start basically three different ways. So, if your vegetation is on fire and it’s in direct flame contact with your house then that’s one of the main ways. Then the other one is the radiant heat, you know, and that’s the heat energy you feel from the flame, like with a candle in your hand or beside the campfire. It all depends on the size of the campfire, how far back do you have to be from the fire? So that’s that radiant heat energy that’s pre-heating everything from a long distance away.

Then another way would be the flying embers, which are also called the flying brands or the sparks. They just traveled great distances from the air convection, and then they’re going to land on flammable objects, spreading the fire, uh, whatever it is. Yeah. But the defensible space, and we’ll talk some more about that, but it’s a, uh, a great concept to adopt and we’ll get into it.

It isn’t that hard either. We’ll take some of the mystery out of it and bring it home to where it’s easy to understand.

Key Factors When Creating Defensible Space

[00:04:56] Erin Landon: Okay. So, what are some key factors to take into account when creating that defensible space or that buffer zone that we’re creating?

[00:05:02] Mike Karvia: Well, I kind of want to do it in a series of layers. So we can call it a zone.

So, your first zone can be anywhere like up to five feet. Depending on your situation, it may even be a little bit shorter distance than that, but your crucial area to focus on for fire safety, um, and this zone, this buffer that you have between vegetation and your house, this is where it’s accessible for firefighters to get around your place.

I think even more important, it’s accessible for you to be able to get around so you can inspect your home. How is your siding, the roofs, the foundation vents, are your gutters clean? Are your decks and porches clean? Are they a source of the fire? Could they be a source for fire? And, uh, don’t forget your deck furniture. That’s part of it too.

All of this is connected to your home. Are your water faucets accessible? A key concept that should be employed by everybody is no vegetation is touching your house, because your house has to breathe, right? You got it. I can’t have mold growing on my home. So, there are a lot of other benefits to that so that first zone is really crucial.

Then the secondary zone and a term That’s frequently used that’s called the lean, clean, and green zone, and this is where you trim your tree limbs from hanging over your roof.

You want to keep them 10 feet away from your roof line, keep them away from your chimney, if you have that. I want that gap. If I can also in this secondary zone, uh, trim tree branches up about 6 feet and then work on the spacing between the trees. As you know, in the pruning sessions that we go to, the most important part of pruning is getting rid of dead, diseased, dying [plant matter]. It doesn’t matter what you do. Those have got to go whether it’s just for the health of the tree or for fire safety. Now that secondary zone can go out to 10 feet, 20 feet, whatever is going to work for you and not be, just specific. Really, if you have the room, this is where you’re going to clear the overhanging vegetation above the road and coming in on the side of the road, so the fire apparatus has access to your place, clearing out, uh, you know, the invasive vegetation that burns really fast, like Gorse and Scotch broom. Again, here’s where we get rid of the dead, diseased, dying vegetation, and 30 feet is really ideal.

Take California, where they have the extremes down there. They kind of want 100 feet, but of course, if our lots are 50 by 100, we’re limited in all of this. So that’s why it’s totally customizable to your situation and what’s going to work. So, you know, it depends, and again, to build on that, depending on where you live, the higher the fire severity, well, the bigger the zone has to be. You know, you move your wood pile away from the house.

Your address sign. Does it have reflective numbers? Can it be seen from different directions?

All that’s in kind of zone three to give yourself that fighting chance that you need. Then work your way to your house. That’s to give you the best chance you can, you’ll never ever eliminate the risk. You can only reduce it.

Specific Plant Choices for Defensible Space

[00:08:41] Erin Landon: So are there some specific plant choices that can help, um, in that, that middle zone or even in the outer zone that we can help either slow it down or not be as quick to ignite?

[00:08:53] Mike Karvia: Yeah, there really is. So, we’ll talk about, um, vegetation to plant and maybe some things that are not good to plant too.

So, having natural native plants, they’re used to the environment. They’re used to not being watered. And it doesn’t have to be a native plant, people. It has to be a native plant. Well, no, it doesn’t. As long as it has a high moisture content to it, you know. Some great ones are azalea and rhododendrons, you know, lavender, sedum, uh, yucca, and agave, and ice plants are really good to have around your area.

They’re beautiful. Beautiful, and they can help slow that fire down as it comes up to them. Something to consider is maybe, uh, reconsider ornamental grasses because they grow in this giant clump, and they die back in the winter and leave all these combustible leaves and stems on the ground. If you have that type of grass, you know, be a good homeowner, cut them down in the fall and remove all the cuttings and deal with it.

They’ll grow back. But this big clump, if that big clump catches on fire, you’ll have what’s called, like this, uh, exothermic burst of energy and you’ll have that radiant heat energy just coming out and preheating everything so reconsider them or plant them farther away if you still wanted to have them.

You know we take a look at the hardscape and so we’re looking at the area around the house and maybe there’s something a little better than wood chips and bark in there. Of course, it’s more expensive when I start looking at gravel, pea gravel, and lava rocks. All of that is expensive, but on the other hand, it’s a one-and-done.

And so, once you get that down there, of course, we’ve got to do some weeding in there and be able to manage it that way. Think about building a rock garden in there and something along that line.

Something else to consider is not planting some of the looser papery bark trees, like the paperback marble, uh, maple, excuse me, some of the dogwoods, and the river birch. That thin peeling layer of bark ignites out easily, allowing the flames to ladder up the trunk of the tree and travel to the limbs and on.

So those are just some considerations that there are. Everything looks nice and cute and pretty when we first plant it. Then we got to look in the crystal ball and think, how big is it going to get? And what are the characteristics of this plant? So there are some good plants to plant. I don’t believe in the concept of don’t plant anything, you know, that doesn’t work for me and it doesn’t work for a lot of people.

It’s okay to go ahead and plant stuff in there, especially in our area. We don’t have that, it’s not that big of an issue, but down in California, it certainly is. So, here’s where they have this rock way spread out 10 feet all the way from the house, you know, and so I think there was a happy medium in there that you can find in planting something that works.

In a class I had given, I had talked about some of the vegetation to be able to plant and in front of a window. Say you had a child’s bedroom window. Well, you could plant something in there. You can still you can plant a rose, but make sure it has thorns, or plant a gooseberry, which has flowers. Thorns, which is going to provide protection from somebody wanting to crawl through the window, right?

So there’s another concept of defensible space there. You still want to plant something. I believe there’s that happy medium that we can balance in there.

How Property Layout and Design Affects Defensible Space

[00:12:50] Erin Landon: How does the layout or design of a property affect the zones or the defensibility against wildfires?

[00:12:57] Mike Karvia: You know, that’s a huge issue. It really is having good access to your home, whatever your driveway length is, whatever it is, make sure it’s wide enough to allow fire suppression apparatus to get there.

About 12 feet wide is an ideal width that we want to look for. And don’t get in the mindset that it’s just a brush truck that’s going to be coming down. Well, if it’s a big enough fire that may take a fire engine, and what’s bigger than a fire engine is a water tender.

So here you have this water tender coming through. Are the tree limbs over the road or are they cut back? Do you have huge potholes? The address sign again. Is it easy to read and not just mailbox numbers on there?

So, The Fire Department, if you think about it, The Fire Department doesn’t have an obligation to go down your poorly maintained driveway. I don’t have to tear off my mirrors. I don’t have to tear off the light bar. I don’t have to tear off the ladders getting down there.

You know, I’m sorry, I’m not going to damage a hundreds of thousands of dollars apparatus to get down there. If we are delayed because we have to hand-jack or hand-lay fire hoses out there, well, you know, I’m sorry. Maintaining that, the layout and the design of whatever it is, you’re going to do.

Siding your home with fire-resistant materials, cement board, is great. Another part about that is cement board trim. It’s on there, maybe tile for the roofing. That doesn’t maybe work all that well here. Making sure, can you cover your foundation vents? Do you have access to them? Your roof vents.

The last thing we want is any flying embers brand sparks traveling through them. Some people are just gonna go, I’m still, I don’t care what you say, I’m still going to have cedar siding and I’m still going to have a cedar roof. Well, that’s okay. It’s your place, you know.

 Another part about the design of the property and the layout is what kind of fence. Are you putting in a wood fence or a metal fence? What type of construction is it going to be and will it contribute to the fire spread? If you think about it, a fence, a continuous fence could be like a fuse. If the fire is burning here, it’s going to keep burning until it runs out of fuel. So, the layout of what it is you’re doing is pretty important for the protection of everybody.

The Role of Maintenance in Defensible Space

[00:15:36] Erin Landon: So what about the role of maintenance and I mean, obviously you have to maintain your home and your plantings. Um, but how you know, I mean, what does that look like? Or how, you know, how are we maintaining these to prevent fire spread?

[00:15:53] Mike Karvia: Yeah, maintenance is an ongoing situation we have to deal with. Welcome to the Pacific Northwest.

Maintenance is, uh, the key word there because if you don’t maintain something then you’re into the next level which is repairs, and repairs are expensive. So, with your maintenance in there, and here’s where we’re dealing with, um, you know the protection of your house and again the dead, diseased, dying, trimming things up, the plant spacing. It’s a never-ending job for us here in the Pacific Northwest.

We’re always mowing, cutting, trimming, clearing, painting, and cleaning every year. You let your guard down one year and you have twice as much work the next year. So, maintenance is an ongoing, uh, component of it, and it’s something that needs to be taken seriously. It is a big deal to be able to stop that because, one of the, we’ll get into a little bit later, one of where you don’t want to be is “it can’t happen to me” and that’s going to come back and not be a good experience.

Common Misconceptions about Defensible Space

[00:17:06] Erin Landon: Are there common misconceptions about defensible space that should be addressed?

[00:17:12] Mike Karvia: Sure. I’ll hit it on it again. Uh, it’s all attitude. “It won’t happen to me”. And so then, yeah, that’s a pretty poor attitude to have and that a lot of people don’t really understand. They should ask for help because they think it’s well, it’s too hard.

It’s too difficult. It costs too much. It’s too much work. Well, you may not accomplish it all in one year, but you keep going and pick away at it and it makes a difference.

Some of the misconceptions are well, “I’m going to cut my lawn short and I’m not going to have to worry about it”. Well, if you don’t water it, um, the lawn dies and this short lawn, one-inch tall, will burn and it will keep burning as where the wind is pushing it and it’ll keep burning until it runs out of fuel or there’s human intervention in it.

So, the cut lawn works, but either you, um, water it, or you make a defensible space around your own fire pit, for instance, people think that green vegetation won’t burn. Well, the basic concept is nothing’s fireproof, but things are fire resistant. But even then, with enough heat, the vegetation will dry out, the vegetation will burn and will contribute to the fire spread.

Resources for Homeowners to Get Feedback About Their Defensible Space

[00:18:38] Erin Landon: So, are there resources for homeowners to get input or feedback about their zones of defensible space?

[00:18:47] Mike Karvia: Yeah, there are. There really are. So, my first words of advice are to go on the internet and take a look at The Department of Natural Resources, and The U.S. Fire Service, and understand what they have to say about the defensible zones.

Probably one of the best words of advice is, to get ahold of your local Fire Department, and ask them for a courtesy site visit. [Ask them to] Please come out and take a look at my place and give me your professional opinion on wildland management for my area and what is it I need, what is it I’m not seeing? What is it I’m not recognizing? Uh, that’s a great resource right there.

Success Stories About How Defensible Spaces Have Protected Properties

[00:19:30] Erin Landon: Yeah. I think a lot of people, get so used to their environment that it’s hard to look at it objectively because you’re just so used to seeing it. So having somebody else come in and look at it gives it a fresh perspective.

And like you said, it’s something that maybe the homeowner wouldn’t see. Do you have any success stories to share about how defensible space has helped, um, protect structures or property?

[00:19:53] Mike Karvia: Yep. Firsthand experience in fighting a lot of dune fires, the wildland fires, mowing your lawn, cutting down that dune grass.

Pacific County will let you maintain a protection distance, but they say 50 ft from an existing structure. It’s amazing how the dune grass burns and it will come up to this mowed area and it just stops it. It is fantastic. So mowing that dune grass slows it down and stops, you know, and again, success stories are people who made the effort to trim vegetation sideways and height ways so that apparatus can get down there.

That address signpost is so important. Go to your fire department and a lot of them have an address signpost program. They will install it. You pay for it. They’ll install it out at the front of the road so that everybody can see it. Whether it is law enforcement, UPS, the mail service, whatever it is, garbage. So, everybody benefits from that.

So, again, the success stories of modern construction, the cement board siding, uh, trim, has made a real impact on the spread of fire.

How to Stay Informed About Current Fire Conditions

[00:21:09] Erin Landon: So how can homeowners stay informed about current fire conditions, uh, during wildfires, all the time, but especially during wildfire season?

[00:21:17] Mike Karvia: Well, I had a lot of fun with this one, doing some more research on it and making sure I got the information, and then I started looking into it and I’m going, I’ll bet the majority of people do not know the three levels of wildfire evacuation.

So you get the phone call. So, you’ve been notified by your neighbors, the internet, TV, reverse 911. There’s an active emergency in your area. Well, and so everybody’s going, well, it’s a level one. So it’s making sure you understand what that is. That is the time to prepare to leave. A person who is aware of this, they’re going to have an emergency plan and I’ll get into that in just a second here.

And you need to have maybe a map for an evacuation route. How are you going to get off? Where you are, one of the unfortunate parts about living on the peninsula is there’s one way on one way off. That’s about it. Unless you have a boat, and you can only do that at certain places and hopefully the tide will work with you. Or a helicopter, right? So that really isn’t too viable.

Do you have a go kit? And so, it’s also known as a, like a bug out bag, a bailout bag, uh, a good bag G O O D, which is Get Out Of Dodge, uh, the P E R K, the Personal Emergency Relocation Kit, and my favorite, the M H R B. That’s when the Manure Hits the Rotating Blade. And so, do you have a bag? Are you ready?

And I’ll get into that, and this is especially important. If you have children, elderly, or disabilities, you should consider leaving. Now, you got to give yourself time to evacuate. Now is the time to get your computer, chargers for the phones, valuables that are easy to carry, and that sort of stuff.

Let’s hit on the evacuation bags. One concept you can apply. Some people keep them full or partially full. Some people keep them empty, but they have a list inside there. This bag is for food. Don’t forget to go to the pantry and get canned food only. This bag is for medications. This one’s for valuables. This one’s for clothing and making sure that it’s not paper sacks, but good sturdy two-handle bags that can carry weight and volume in there.

So that’s that level one. You’ve been notified. Hey, there’s something going on and you better pay attention. This isn’t, well, “I’m going to wait for level two”. No, you better pay attention. Now we get onto level two and this is the substantial danger nearby. That emergency is less predictable.

You may have time to gather your necessary items, but you do it fast and at your own risk. Now would be a good time to leave at a level two and a level three. You leave right now. Drop what you’re doing. You grab your keys. You leave with the clothes on your back and you get out of Dodge right now.

The time to organize has passed. You don’t have time to go back and get everything. No, it’s time to leave. So, understanding those three different levels because this is what’s going to be broadcasted over the news media and making sure people have a good understanding about what it is that’s happening and stay informed, stay involved, contact your neighbors, and share that information.

Resources to Learn More about Defensible Space

[00:24:59] Erin Landon: Are there any specific resources or organizations that you would recommend to learn more about defensible space?

[00:25:06] Mike Karvia: Yeah, uh, again, The United States Fire Service, The Department of Natural Resources, uh, FEMA has a website called ready.gov, R E A D Y dot gov, and it has different preparedness levels to review all the way from a hurricane, tornado, a flood, wildland fire, and they have a mobile app to get real-time weather and emergency alerts from there.

We’ve talked about contacting your local fire department for a site safety visit and just having them take a look at everything. Get a hold of your county’s emergency management. A lot of them have the ability to contact you through programs in Pacific County. They have what’s called hyper reach and you will receive notifications of instances that are coming on, doesn’t cost you anything, and they’ll tell you about the weather and community alerts.

So those were just some very basic, simple ones, and the websites are very user-friendly. They want you to go to them. They want you to take a look at them. They want you to understand, um, about what it is, the hazards that there are. So, it’s a really good resource. There’s a lot of them out there and make sure you get some good resources that have, uh, validity to them and not just, uh, somebody saying something.

 [00:26:33] Erin Landon: Yeah. We’ll link to some of those resources in the show notes too. So they are easy to find.

How Can Property Owners Protect Their Homes and Prevent Fires?

How can property owners protect their homes and property from, or even prevent fires from fire hazards within the home, like lithium-ion batteries or things like that?

[00:26:50] Mike Karvia: Yeah, here’s something that everybody needs to pay attention to. We don’t want to be part of the problem. We don’t want to have a fire or contribute to a fire. People need to really pay attention to the lithium-ion batteries, you know, they power our lives. Every day we use them. Phones, Laptops, Children’s toys. The problem with them is when they ignite, they burn very hot and they release their own oxygen, which makes them burn hotter. So the bigger issue is the many poor-quality of batteries and cheap chargers on the market. They’re overused and charged for too long.

Look for that UL sticker. Do yourself a favor. Don’t save money, pay a few extra dollars and get one that’s going to be safe and make a difference. As a matter of fact, it is such a widespread problem across the country, you know, policymakers, they’re updating fire codes, they’re passing new housing regulations. San Francisco said no extension cords on a lithium-ion battery charging unit. No extension cords on it.

You take a lot of universities like the University of Maryland, which have bans on parking electric vehicles inside with some of the campus vehicles. There’s no electric skateboards or scooters are allowed. It is that big of a problem and we don’t want to contribute to that problem.

And so it’s just kind of an eye-opening, do some fact-checking if you’d like to and check it out. But we want to be safe within our own at home and not be part of any of the problems.

[00:28:32] Erin Landon: So are there other things to think of besides just the lithium-ion batteries?

[00:28:38] Mike Karvia: Well, you know, anything that’s going to help you out.

The smoke detectors. A lot of people do not know that smoke detectors have a lifespan of 10 years. That’s all that’s the lifespan of them. That’s why when you go to some of the big box stores and you buy smoke detectors, there are 10-year smoke detectors. There’s not an 11-year. There’s not 12 years. There are only 10-year smoke detectors. So, these are the ones that you want to get because it’s a one-and-done at the end of the 10-year life cycle that’s easily disposed of.

Having a smoke detector with carbon monoxide detectors are very important and a valuable resource, certainly can’t undervalue the power of a fire extinguisher. The fire extinguisher certainly has its place.

Contact your local fire department for communication on what is it going to take to have a good fire extinguisher and which ones can be refilled and which ones, you throw away. Having that, having an evacuation plan, having a plan in your home is just huge. And if you have young kids and they do the fire evacuation plan at school and bring it home, you know, take it seriously because it’s being taught in class for a reason in there and making sure that everybody’s aware.

[00:29:59] Erin Landon: How does the struggle to recruit and retain wildland firefighters affect property owners and their need to create defensible space?

[00:30:07] Mike Karvia: This is a huge issue in the fire service, the United States Fire Service, they’re struggling. They’ve been struggling for years to retain wildland firefighters.

There’s a 45% attrition rate among its permanent employees. Fewer new individuals are applying. Wages start at $15 an hour for entry-level. Poor compensation, poor benefits, and the high costs associated with the job. And one of the amazing, most difficult parts of it is the hiring process.

They have this arduous, unnecessary hiring process that you consistently read about and why are you doing this? The cost of living, and competitive pay from other fire agencies, all of this is leading to the struggles the U.S. Fire Service has in combating wildland fires. I’ll resort back to; we have to help ourselves. We have to make things happen ourselves. And knowing that this federal agency is having problems we still can help, but it’s up to us.

Erin Landon: How can we help?

Mike Karvia: Well, you know, you can know your hazards. You can create the fire zones. You can, how do I get out? Where do I go for an evacuation route? Um, have you analyzed the, the fuel mitigation on your property? How are you going to do that? Assessing your, your property.

When we take a look at the fire in Maui, where they had such a huge problem there, the emergency system failed the people. The system failed and they didn’t give sufficient warnings.

The sirens didn’t go off because of poor decision-making. Evacuation orders were late. Communication between agencies was inadequate. Water supply couldn’t be met. They couldn’t draft out of the ocean. Well, you’re an island, you’re surrounded by water. What do you mean you don’t have any water? Well, the terrain and the high winds prevented them from doing that.

So the fire department didn’t break. It was basically outmatched by having limited resources, the high winds, and the extreme fire conditions. I mean, good golly, it burned over 6,000 acres, destroyed 2,000 structures, took over a hundred lives, 6 billion property loss, 13,000 people displaced. And it was because of the fire, weather, fire conditions, fuel, and the system let the people down.

You know, when it comes to firefighting, I’m fond of saying in my classes that when you’re fighting a fire, it’s a battle between BTU and GPM, the one with the most wins. If you don’t have enough water to fight the BTU, get out of the way because there’s nothing you can do. But if I have enough water resources and manpower, then I’m going to, I’m going to take that risk, that calculated risk and get in there and tackle the monster and, and make it happen.

How Property Owners Can Mitigate Fire Threats

[00:33:27] Erin Landon: Are there some decisions that property owners could make that would help mitigate some of the threats like they saw in Maui?

[00:33:36] Mike Karvia: You know, some of it was beyond a lot of the public’s control. Some of it was beyond their control, but again, taking care of vegetation management, taking care of problems that you have so you’re not part of the bigger problem.

There’s so much going on in the world and everybody keeps blaming, you know, climate change. Well, you know, climate change, nobody can deny that it’s happening, whether it’s manmade or cyclic is another discussion. But the basic fact is that in the Western U.S., it’s hotter and drier, making the wildland fires worse.

All the climate models are forecasting average summer temperatures that will increase, but ignition is the wild card. So, what if it’s hotter? So, what if it’s drier? That happens. It’s the ignition sources we need to be concerned about. In Alaska, most of the fires are started by lightning. In California, it’s people.

So, the wildland firefighting is so crucial because it’s, it’s part of our ecosystem. It, it clears out the dead underbrush and the aging foliage spreads new seeds and enables biodiversity. Well, the government’s going, well, we’re going to put it out and it just creates a larger and more dangerous fuel load.

And so there’s huge parts of our country, some of the scientists are calling, We’re in a fire deficit. They haven’t burned for such a long time, and they need to, which means the fires are only going to get bigger, badder, and more destructive. And so, there are so many contributing factors in there that I really want to make a point on, ask for help.

That’s a big part of it right there. Ask for help. There are a lot of knowledgeable people out there that, that can help you out. And again, I really want to stress that this is your zones. This is your issue and what works for somebody else isn’t going to work for me. So I’ve got to customize it for the problems that I have.

Technology and Innovations in Defensible Space Practices

[00:35:45] Erin Landon: So do you see any trends or upcoming technologies or innovations that could help with wildfire prevention or, um, defensible space practices?

[00:35:57] Mike Karvia: You know, yes, I do. Drones are here. They’re here to stay. They’re finding new uses for them every day in the wildland sector. They are able to be launched and go out into remote areas to where maybe radars are saying, well, there is possibly fire. We’ve had lightning strikes over there where they can send drones out and have eyes on the situation instead of boots on the ground to confirm what’s going on.

A technique for creating this defensible space in the wildland world is what’s called a backburn. And so a back burn is a very organized, specialized tactic where we are going to burn this area out ahead of the fire coming to us, which is going to slow down or stop or redirect the fire in there. So they have drones that can drop these fireballs and they can start a fire on purpose in specific areas.

And, instead of, and again, instead of having boots on the ground. They can have their eyes in the sky to be able to make these decisions. So the technology is fabulous. Just fantastic finding new uses for it every day. And all of that’s going to make a difference. But again, it’s the people.

It’s the people that are the problem.

Erin Landon: So people can be the solution too.

Mike Karvia: Very nice. You’re absolutely right. We can be part of the solution. We’re very good at problem recognition but sometimes we’re not very good at problem solutions.

Final Thoughts on Defensible Space and Home Gardens

[00:37:33] Erin Landon: All right. So is there anything else you want to add about, uh, defensible space and, um, home gardens?

[00:37:40] Mike Karvia: You know, it’s very easy to do. It isn’t hard. It’s not a difficult concept. It is not expensive. It is achievable through a series of steps that you want to make, and it can be done, and we have a responsibility to be able to do that too, not only for the protection of our investment of our home but also for the protection of the environment and protection of not being part of the problem.

And, you know, that gives us more time to garden and be able to have more fun out in the garden and plant new and unique plants and harvest our vegetables and have fun and, give us other things to worry about than this. But it is a true problem, and it’s heavily recognized and the right people understand it.

But of course, as with any problem, it’s time and money.

Erin Landon: All right. Well, thanks for being here. This has been great.

Mike Karvia: Well, thank you so much for the invite. I had a great time. It was a wonderful experience and, and all as well. Thank you so much.